Amount of lighting

[Bill]

Concerned that I was getting lazy, I went out and measured my ceiling
joists and other structure carefully and spent my evening with SketchUp!

I am concerned as to how many new 48" (10" wraparound) fixtures to add.
Please see my two jpeg's:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Putting another light above my virtual bench may make good sense.
However, If I regard my bench area as 10' by 8', then my new pics at my
web site already demonstrate 80 ft^2/6 [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] = 13.3 ft^2 per bulb!
Don't want to blast my self out. I was thinking of using 32W, 5000K or
6000K fluorescent bulbs.

I would like to try to optimize my lighting? As drawn, the distances of
the lights from the walls are 36" and 24" respectively. Assume the
walls will be white (for decent reflectivity). The floor is [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].
I'm going to keep the light in front of the subpanel 36" away from it to
satisfy relevant codes (regarding a "free workspace").

I never did this before and I hope to do it right the first time. What
would you change?

Thanks,
Bill

[Mike Marlow]

Bill wrote:


You don't need to worry about your shop lights being inside of the 36"
workspace around your panel. That workspace defines unobstructed floor and
wall space.

--

-Mike-
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[J. Clarke]

In article <icvl1h02m10@news3.newsguy.com>, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] says...

There should be a light positioned to illuminate the guts of the panel--
for some reason I was under the impression that there was a code
requirement for that but it might be my mind playing tricks on me.

The "free workspace" requirement doesn't mean there can't be anything in
the ceiling--the idea is that there has to be room for a guy working on
the panel to stand in front of it and work on it without being in an
awkward posture.


Just a suggestion but check your local library and see if they have or
can get for you either the "IES Lighting Handbook" or "Time Saver
Standards for Architectural Design", or check the used book sites and
see if you can find older copies for cheap.

"Time Saver Standards for Architectural Design" has a good section on
lighting design, with illumination patterns for many common types of
fixture, the required illumination levels for a wide range of tasks, and
details of calculation methods. The IES Handbook has that and a
tremendous lot more--it's the "bible" of the lighting industry.

If you're dealing with straight tube fluorescents then any edition of
either published in the last 30 years or so should have what you need.

If I have time over the weekend and can find my copy of Time Saver
Standards I'll see if I can work out the numbers for you, but no
promises.

[Larry Kraus]

I had good luck putting up fixtures in my wife's stained glass room
using lighting design info found here:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

It's been a couple years ago, I think the Photometric viewer is the
program you want, along with data [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] for the type of fixture you
want to use.

I placed fixtures in the center of her 14'x20' room. The room is
bright, but there are some "soft" shadows when working along the wall.
Try to keep your bench lighting between you and the wall to prevent
shadows when leaning over your work.

I'd use the 5000K [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] for a white light. I used the 6000k in hopes
of better color rendition, but it makes the room look kind of blue.

Ceiling lights are not a clearance issue for the electrical panel
unless you plan to hang from the ceiling while working on the panel.
The workbench in front of the panel could be an issue. Keep it
mobile.

[Ecnerwal]

In article <icvl1h02m10@news3.newsguy.com>, Bill <Bill@NOSPAM.net>
wrote:

The longer workbench is in the space that should be kept clear. The
light is not a problem (actually, a light at the panel is a requirement,
as is an outlet at the panel - both to make working on the panel
civilized.)

Put the bench lights on a different switch, and more over the bench (and
move the bench to a different wall if it's not on wheels.) You can have
just those on for bench work, and just the others on for non-bench-work,
and both on for jobs that go back and forth. Or get more specific and
provide a light for each machine, with a switch for it, and turn it on
when working on that machine (depends how much you care about saving
electricity .vs. some added cost and complexity (not much) in wiring).
Not as much use if the shop is cold and the florescent lights take a
long time to come to full brightness. The light for the tablesaw should
be high-frequency ballast and/or include at least one incandescent
(often a spot pointed at the blade) that does not "flicker", to avoid
the "strobe effect" where the blade seems to stand still as it slows
down (while still spinning.)

People go with all sorts of options, and work under all sorts of
conditions. As you get older, you'll want more light to maintain acuity
as your eyes go to crap, unless you got really lucky in the eye lottery.
"Blasting yourself out" is almost impossible, given the amount of light
in full sun .vs. what we achieve with any indoor lighting. Providing
appropriate light for the task at hand is more like it (ie, if you are
not doing any fiddly work away from bench or machines, less light is
appropriate there, particularly if it's something like lumber storage -
OTOH, if you are finishing large projects away from the bench, you'll
want lights you can turn on for that process, at least.)

If you have any "shop lights" around the house, they are easy to hang
and move and get an idea of where you are putting permanent fixtures.
Sometimes real life is better than any computer model you can reasonably
expect to find for free.

Paint the floor white. It won't stay pristine white, but it will reflect
more light than a gray or red floor, and paint keeps the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] dust
down.

This is what - 20 x 25 x 8 ft high? I'd guesstimate that you'd want at
least 6 fixtures for general work lighting, and more on the bench.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

[Larry Jaques]

On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 02:34:08 -0500, Bill <Bill@NOSPAM.net> wrote:


Are you -sure- you want wraparound covers (which are VERY good
collectors of dust) in your shop? And 9 (or 12 if you put in the
extra switching for them.)



The 5000K have a better CRI, but either is good in the shop. Check
the lumen output of the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], too. They vary widely between brands.



My take on the NEC code leads me to define the workspace as the area
which extends from the top of the panel (or 6'6" min) to the floor,
and allowing a (large) person to get right up to the panel from the
front. I wouldn't build anything within a foot of either side of the
panel, but I wouldn't hesitate to roll something movable (router
station, unplugged welder?) into the access space. I don't read the
code as mentioning overhead access, but. What (as I suggested
earlier) did your local code inspector say about it? He's "god" for
all things electrical in your area and what any of us thinks has no
meaning there if he says something different.



Do yourself a favor and do temporary hangings of the lights to see for
yourself what light [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] you're comfortable with. _Then_ hang and
wire them permanently.

I'd hang them the other direction, 3 per column in 3 columns, 4'
between bulbs either way, centered in the room. (Lew would probably
want them every 2' for a total of 40 fixtures or so. Get checked for
cataracts, Lew! Lew's scenario would blow you out of the shop,
requiring #5 welding goggles to see through the glare.

Task lighting on each machine (where required) and over the benches
(if necessary) will fill in the gaps.

P.S: I forgot to ask if you put quad outlets everywhere. There's
always a third cord to go in whatever outlet you're near, y'know.

--
Happiness comes of the capacity to feel deeply, to enjoy
simply, to think freely, to risk life, to be needed.
-- Storm Jameson

[Bill]

On 11/29/2010 8:50 AM, Larry Kraus wrote:



That's a really good thought. Thank you. That may be a good argument
for an additional light "between me and the wall".

Bill

[Bill]

On 11/29/2010 8:08 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

That's helpful. Thank you. I thought I read "36" in front of ...and up
to the ceiling", but a light snug to the ceiling is not really an
obstruction (to me and you). I'll double-check.

Bill

[Stuart]

In article <icvl1h02m10@news3.newsguy.com>,
Bill <Bill@NOSPAM.net> wrote:

Hmmm, don't think that's likely :-)

I have a 16ft x 8ft garage as my [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], main lighting is four 48", 58W
fluorescent fittings running lengthwise. Walls and ceiling are all painted
white. In addition there's a 100W incandescent spot in an adjustable
fitting aimed at my vice.

The other end of the bench there's a large circular, illuminated,
magnifying lamp on an "anglepoise" type arrangement. Apart from it's use
when critical marking out (metalwork mainly) when raised up it can provide
more general "Task lighting". This has a "G" clamp like fixing and can be
moved from its present position, clamped to the end of the bench towards
the back.

Fixed to the underside of the 12" wide shelf, which runs the full length
of the wall, over the bench, at this same end of the bench, is a 20W
halogen spotlight in an adjustable fitting. This can either be positioned
to throw light forward onto the end of the bench or swivelled through 90
deg to direct light onto my X1 milling machine.

If I turn round from facing my bench, I find myself facing my C3 minilathe
against the other wall, which has a 60W incandescent spotlight in an
anglepoise fitting clamped to the tailstock end of its bench. This lamp,
when rotated through 180 deg will throw additional light on my router
table.

In addition to all this I have a 60W incandescent spot in a "lead lamp".
This has a strong spring clip and can be used anywhere in the shop, though
it is normally positioned to aim light at the table of my drill press -
which is next to my mill and also throws some light on that.

In your situation, I'd certainly be adding a lot more 4ft fluorescents

--
Stuart Winsor

Midland RISC OS show - Sat July 9th 2011

[Bill]

Ecnerwal wrote:

Thank you. The replies to my original post put new (and worthwhile)
ideas in my head:

1) Shadows
2) Mock-up lighting for testing purposes
3) Maybe I don't need "wrap-arounds" as much as I thought I did (they
are pretty though).
4) Further switch possibilities. BTW, my existing two lights are powered
by a separate panel (my main panel) which I like. But I only installed
one extra light switch this summer! Ahhhhh! There's more than one way to
switch a light though...I'm not ready to tear my new drywall down yet.
5)Further lighting references, etc.!

At least this time around, I know 6000K is not necessarily "Brighter
Than" 5000K! I'm getting there. : )

Bill